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Gina:                    Hi everyone. Welcome to the Harmony Foundation podcast series and it’s my pleasure to be joined today with Jessamine Martin, Dr. Jessamine Martin with the Colorado Center for Clinical Excellence. Welcome.

Dr. Martin:    Hi, thank you.

Gina:                   So good to have you here. Before we get into talking about your background, let’s talk a little bit … or at least about the Center, let’s talk a little bit about your background and how you got into the field of behavioral health.

Dr. Martin:    Sure. You know everyone has their own unique story to that. For me, it was going to college and as I took more and more psychology classes, realizing that it was endlessly fascinating, and it was a field where I felt I would be continually challenged to learn and grow as I go. And I love working with people, of course, you kind of need to be working in this field. And yeah, it’s something that I feel like I would never get bored and people will never cease to surprise me in so many wonderful ways.

Gina:                   And so you do some specific work on dialects and so when I was reading your bio through the Center’s website, you talk about this nature of dialects and that was interesting to me. So can you tell me more about that so other people can kind of get an understanding of where you’re coming from with that?

Dr. Martin:    Definitely. So it comes from the core theory of dialectical behavior therapy, which is what I mainly practice with. And a dialect is when you have two opposing wants or needs that are both true and both valid and having that dialect often builds tension between the two because we feel pulled to have to choose one or the other or often people can judge themselves for wanting two things that seemingly can’t exist at the same time. And so I work with clients to identify the dialects that they’re living with on a daily basis that they might not even realize they have and help them resolve that tension. That doesn’t necessarily mean having to choose one over the other. It can mean just being kinder to yourself and more understanding of what’s contributing to your emotional distress.

Gina:                    Mm-hmm (affirmative) and so you use this great example, which I related to, which is wanting to lose weight but still having that craving for pizza.

Dr. Martin:     Oh yeah.

Gina:                    So is that a good example?

Dr. Martin:     It’s a very common one.

Gina:                    Yeah.

Dr. Martin:    Others can be walking away from an abusive or negative relationship and then deeply missing that person and wanting to go back to them even though there’s part of you that knows that wasn’t good. It can even be socially as well. Like you might be out with friends having a great time and then also there’s a part of you that just wants to curl up at home and have a quiet night and so it can really … it can take many different forms.

Gina:                   Yeah. And it’s interesting because we probably could go into a whole other kind of conversation about the shame that comes up …

Dr. Martin:    For sure.

Gina:                    … when you can’t meet those needs and you know there is that sort of tension that happens between the two so … Well the other thing I thought was very interesting about you is that you have this passion for dancing.

Dr. Martin:    Yes.

Gina:                   And so, why is that important to you?

Dr. Martin:    Specifically I do social partner dancing and this is things like swing dancing, blues, tango, contra, there’s a whole community in this. I started dancing when I was 14 and I feel that has positively impacted so many things in my life. Things like physical health or sense of balance. I’m very tall and gangly and I feel like I would be infinitely more clumsy if I hadn’t started dancing when I was a teenager. And there’s also just this deep community within it … you meet people and you’re a dancer and you’re in and then it’s like you know people around the country and I actually did my dissertation on social partner dancing.

Gina:                    Oh.

Dr. Martin:    And while I didn’t get very many significant results, it did really open my eyes to the community aspect of it and so I see dancing, specifically social partner dancing, as helpful in so many different areas. Like, if someone has social anxiety, it’s a warm, welcoming community that fosters safety. Or if someone wants to get in better physical shape, it’s crazy cardio, and you don’t feel it. You’re really squatting the whole time and you don’t feel it. I just feel like it can touch so many different areas of someone’s life.

Gina:                   Well I think we’re all having a hard time these days in learning how to be comfortable in our bodies. I think just turning the radio on in my house and dancing in my house makes me uncomfortable. So it’s like, how can we move past that inhibition of using our bodies in a way that’s meaningful and healthy. So I think that’s great.

Dr. Martin:     It’s body awareness, it’s body … loving your body and appreciating what your body does for you. Dancing can help that as well.

Gina:                    Well you’ve talked a little bit about your modalities and how you work with clients and so … but we haven’t talked specifically about what your area of specialty is. So if someone were calling in to the Center and looking for somebody like you, what would say the type of client is that you work with?

Dr. Martin:      Mainly adults, I do work with teenagers ages 12 and up. But mostly I do individual therapy with adults and I try to be open to a wide variety of what you’re struggling with and what you want to work on. I try not to box in my clients of, like, let’s make your goals and then get to them and, like, kick you out the door.

Dr. Martin:       I strive to have therapy be what they need in the moment and so for some clients, that is that they need concrete skills and they need structure and they need a sense of like okay this is where we’re headed and for others, they need a space to just be uncomfortable and be weird and not know what they’re doing and I can help them find some guidance in that but also increase comfort with that.

Gina:                     That’s great. That’s great. So this is your first visit to Harmony. What are your thoughts?

Dr. Martin:      It’s amazing. I was surprised at how big the grounds are and how spacious it feels and, you know, Estes Park is just beautiful. Being right next to mountains and I’m lucky in that I’m seeing in with fresh snowfall so it’s very picturesque right now. And yeah, just talking to all the staff and all the different sections of staff. Everyone seems equally passionate about the individuals, about individual care and tailored care and that’s a message I got continually from everyone is … when we’d ask them, oh, what’s your approach to this aspect … case worker and such … everyone said it depends on the person. Depends on that particular person and their needs and their situation. And I think that’s great.

Gina:                     Well thank you. And I think that our relationship with you, as an independent clinician as well as working with the Center, is going to be great. If someone were looking for access to your services and they wanted to get in touch with the Colorado Center for Clinical Excellence, how could they get in touch with you?

Dr. Martin:      Couple of different ways. Our main phone line 303-347-3700. That will connect you to one of our clinicians, and they will call you back in less than 24 hours and do like sort of a 15 minute phone chat and if you’re a good fit with them, they can schedule an intake right there. If not, then we, as a group, there’s nine of us all together, we communicate together, and we really strive to find the best fit for someone. That being said, people can also go to our website, www.thecoloradocenter.com and you can click on any of our faces, and you’d just get a plethora of information about all of us. And you can also research the methods that we use as a group as well. And then for me personally, my direct line, my direct number is 303-547-3594 and, again, you would call that number, leave a voicemail, I will call you back in less than 24 hours. I strive for less than three hours or somewhere in there.

Gina:                      Well, we really appreciate you taking the time to come up and visit with us. Thank you Dr. Martin.

Dr. Martin:      Thank you.

Gina:                                     Hi everyone. Welcome to the Harmony Foundation Podcast series. It’s my pleasure, today, to be joined with James Abrams, who’s with the Colorado Center for Clinical Excellence. Welcome, James.

James Abrams:                Hi. Thanks.

Gina:                                     It’s good to have you here.

James Abrams:                It’s good to be here.

Gina:                                     We are certainly very interesting in hearing about this unique model of what you do with addiction treatment. Before we have conversations about that, let’s talk for a few minutes about your background, and what got you into the field of behavioral health.

James Abrams:                Sure. Yeah, I mean, that’s a big question. I could do a couple hours [inaudible 00:00:28] that.

Gina:                                      Yeah.

James Abrams:                 I think the short version is, before I got into this, I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to be a professor, actually, ’cause I wanted to help people learn about the things that had been so helpful in my life. As I got closer to that goal, I realized, the kind of teaching that you get to do as a professor, really wasn’t gonna get any of the meaningful information across.

I just thought about it. I thought, “What’s most important, to me, is getting the meaning through.” The best way to do that, is one-on-one, just be with people, and be there to help them sort it out, themselves. It’s not about my brain. You know?

Gina:                                     So, being a facilitator of their behavior change, really kind of helping them …

James Abrams:                Yeah. Just, their values change, and their self-exploration. All of it. To be there to be curious about them, almost is a way to show them they can be curious about themselves.

Gina:                                     Yeah. You’ve got a great segue into my next question, which is talking about this idea of curiosity related to some of the principles of Buddhism that you use in the practice that you’re doing. A lot of times, when you’re talking to people in the field of addiction treatment, it’s usually just this very scientific, concrete, CBT, DBT type of approach. You have incorporated the Buddhist principles of mindfulness and existential therapy, into the work that you’re doing, with people with substance abuse. Can you talk a little bit about what that looks like, for a client that might be coming in to your practice?

James Abrams:                Yeah. I’ll try.

Gina:                                      Gonna try and condense it, in a very-

James Abrams:                 Yeah.

Gina:                                     … short period of time.

James Abrams:                 I mean, like you said, there are some more rigid approaches, like CBT, DBT, even ACT. I think those work well. They’re just not the approach that feels right for me.

For me, it’s more about … I think that behavior change comes as a result of values change. Right? The value changing comes as a result of mindful awareness of yourself, like, how do you figure out what actually matters to you, if you’re not paying attention?

What’s nice about the Buddhist principle of mindfulness, is that it’s totally nonjudgmental. It’s like you’re gonna feel and be whatever it is that you are, and that’s fine. That’s a message we could probably stand to get a lot more, in society, which is just that, you’re fine. You know? It sort of goes back to, there’s this old saying in analytic circles, which is that, “People come to therapy to find out what’s wrong with them. And they leave knowing that nothing is.” Right?

Gina:                                      That’s true.

James Abrams:                I think that’s the goal. For me, mindfulness, that’s the path to that goal.

Gina:                                      One of the things that I’ve learned through my meditation practice, is understanding that your thoughts are not who you are.

James Abrams:                Right.

Gina:                                     And, learning how to be mindful about your thoughts, and not judging them, but just accepting them and letting them go.

James Abrams:                Yeah.

Gina:                                     Which I think a lot of people, particularly in addiction, struggle with, because they self-identify around their thoughts.

James Abrams:                Right.

Gina:                                     Your focus is working specifically with substance use disorders, and one of the things that you and I have talked about, is this idea of relapse prevention, and looking at relapse prevention as it is in the industry of addiction treatment. Why is it important to you, to work with this type of population?

James Abrams:                It’s almost hard to say. I just, I get it. Something about people who are struggling with substance abuse, or any kind of addiction. I work with a lot of behavioral and process addictions. It just makes sense to me. Like, “Yeah. You feel really bad. You want to feel better. You reach for the thing that’s gonna make you feel better … at least for a little while. I think addiction is really that simple.

Honestly, I’m at the point where I think everyone is addicted to something. Some addictions are more harmful and visible than others, but I really think it’s at the core of human experience. It’s just, “How do you feel better? And, do you get stuck feeling better, the same way every time? Does it help you or hurt you?”

Gina:                                     For somebody to come up against a provider like yourself, who is willing to be very open and accepting wherever they are in their recovery journey, is probably half the battle, sometimes, because they oftentimes feel so judged, based on their behavior.

James Abrams:                Right. I mean, so many people in the addictions recovery field … at least for a long time in the past, I think still today … are really committed to either like, “You’re bad. It’s a moral failure. Or, like, your behavior is bad.”

Your behavior might be harmful. It’s not bad. You’re not bad for doing it. I think that, in the end, everybody wants to get to health.

Gina:                                     You’re right. Yep. Good point.

James Abrams:               So, I’ll just help ’em get there.

Gina:                                     This was interesting, I read this about your bio … you have a master’s degree in Eastern Classics, and it looked at working with teachers from India, China, and Japan. How did those studies guide you in your practice with your clients today?

James Abrams:                You got all these big questions for this 10 minute interview.

Gina:                                      You can get it done.

James Abrams:                Yeah. I mean, that was sort of, like I said, that was the path for me. You know? There was just something about those eastern teachings, that just addressed what was going on for me in my life, so well, and ’caused such a massive shift in just how I felt … how I thought … how I acted. And, all towards things, that I’d been meaning to go to for so long. That sort of become the foundation for me. I mean, like I said, being able to sit in that nonjudgmental space, I think that’s everything. That’s where the healing comes from.

I mean, if we really want to get into the nitty gritty, there’s some stuff … if anyone listening to this is familiar with Dogen, the 12th century Zen Buddhist, a lot of his writing is about this thing that I think of as his idea that I call a tense juxtaposition. Right? Which is that, there are two things … there are two directions you wanna go in, or more. In your mind, that’s really possible. In reality it isn’t. You can only move in one direction at a time.

He would recommend, “Don’t do anything yet. Wait, and let that internal tension just build. And, it’s gonna be hard, but wait with it. Eventually it’s gonna collapse.” You will actually get a direction. You don’t have to keep guessing. You know? You-

Gina:                                      I can see what you’re saying.

James Abrams:                There’s a part of you that knows what you’re supposed to do.

Gina:                                      Yeah. That’s very true. I mean, I think I’ve actually experienced some of that, and never knew what it was. That’s great. This is your first visit to Harmony. No, it’s not. This is your second-

James Abrams:                It’s my second visit.

Gina:                                     … visit to Harmony. So, you’re a regular.

James Abrams:                All right.

Gina:                                     Tell us a little bit about your thoughts.

James Abrams:                I really, I think this place is great. As far as I can tell, it’s like the gold standard in Colorado.

Gina:                                      Oh. Thank you.

James Abrams:                Yeah. It just seems like, basically, all the bases are covered, and every time I talk to people, it’s like, “How do we cover them better?”

The detox seem so careful. The people involved seem like they care so much more than just, like, “Let’s get this junk out of your system.” The therapists, there’s people practicing so many approaches, I mean, any client is gonna find someone to stick to. It just seems so comprehensive.

Gina:                                     Thank you.

James Abrams:               Even talking to case management, it’s like they really care. They’re working hard.

Gina:                                     Yep.

James Abrams:                I like it.

Gina:                                     Thank you.

James Abrams:                Plus, it’s beautiful.

Gina:                                     Yeah. That doesn’t hurt it either.

James Abrams:                Yeah.

Gina:                                     That doesn’t hurt. If someone wanted to access services with you directly, whether it’s through the center or with you in private practice, what would they need to do?

James Abrams:                Oh. It’s real simple.

Gina:                                     Okay.

James Abrams:                You can give me a call. Two different numbers work. If you wanna get straight to me, call me at (720) 432-5680. If you wanna call the Colorado Center for Clinical Excellence, and chat it out with someone, you can reach them at (303) 347-3700. If you would prefer to email … eventually that will have to stop, but for an initial contact, you can reach me at J-C-O-L-E-A-B-R-A-M-S @gmail.com.

Gina:                                     Okay. Wonderful …

Gina Thorne: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Harmony Foundation Podcast Series, and I’m pleased today to be joined with Jolene Park, functional nutritionist with Healthy Discoveries. Welcome, Jolene.

Jolene Park: Thanks, Gina.

Gina Thorne: It’s really good to have you here.

Jolene Park: Yeah. Thank you. It’s great to be here.

Gina Thorne: We’re really interested in hearing about Healthy Discoveries, but before we do that, I’d love to talk with you a little bit more about what it means to be a functional nutritionist. You work as a functional nutritionist here in Denver, Colorado. The concept was new to me, and so I’m sure it might be new to other listeners. Could you describe for us a little bit about what’s the difference between a traditional nutritionist and a functional nutritionist?

Jolene Park: Yeah. Yeah. From the functional side, I really look at how we can use nutrients in a functional way. For example, “What’s depleted? What’s deficient?” And then, “What’s showing up because of that?” That can be around cravings. You know, “Is magnesium depleted? Is B6 depleted?” And looking at certain foods. It doesn’t have to be supplements, but certain foods that can help the body come back into homeostasis and take us out of cravings or different symptoms, like having trouble sleeping or anxiety. There’s lots of different ways to look at that from a real functional nutrient standpoint.

Gina Thorne: Really, taking advantage of the physiology of the body and looking at it from that perspective, which probably has a bigger difference or impact on the brain, and how you actually work on a day to day basis.

Jolene Park: Right, because the body always wants to be in homeostasis, and so when something gets depleted or in an excess level, we don’t feel good. That gives us a real message, and then it’s going back and looking at that, of, “What do we need to kind of boost things back up to come to balance, or bring things back more to the middle ground?” There’s lots of detective work in that. It’s a fun practice, but it doesn’t have to be complicated, either. Just going back to the basics of, “How hydrated are you?” And, “How often are you eating?” And, “What exactly are you eating?” Doesn’t have to be complicated, but those little tweaks can make a big difference on a functional level.

Gina Thorne: It’s interesting, because I mean, I feel like we could go on a completely different tangent talking about this idea of how we ignore those things that our body is telling us every single day, and if we were more mindful in thinking about what the body is telling us, we probably would be in homeostasis on a regular basis.

Jolene Park: Yeah.

Gina Thorne: That’s interesting. We want to learn a little bit more about Healthy Discoveries. It’s a holistic approach to wellness, and as a person who’s abstinent from alcohol, which is one of the reasons why we’re here today, I want to talk with you a little bit about you were able to marry the passion of your functional medicine work with this idea of abstinence from alcohol. What was that journey like?

Jolene Park: Well, the functional nutrition side of it was integral. That was the root of it, when I chose to stop drinking myself three years ago, going back to the physical level. For instance, with brain chemicals. Knowing that my GABA, which is kind of my internal anti-anxiety brain chemical, was depleted, and was using wine in that way. What, then, are some functional nutrients that I can use to boost my GABA up, and not feel as anxious without needing to use wine? But then just from the whole Healthy Discoveries standpoint, I work with a 10-point model. I call it my Wellness Wheel, because even though as a nutritionist, I think nutrition is fascinating and it can be a great foundation, but it’s not the only piece. Eating right and exercise are really good things to do, but then it’s also, “How are we nourishing ourselves with relationships, and relaxation practices, and our leisure, and financially, career-wise? Our purpose, our vision, our spiritual wellbeing?” There’s nourishment and nutrients in all of those areas, not just food.
For myself, I’m always looking at that, and that’s what I am training and coaching others on too, of that bigger picture of nourishment.

Gina Thorne: Do you see the work that you’re doing with individuals that you come across, are they eager to find that kind of transition as well? Was this a new thing for you when you made this decision to say, “You know, this alcohol thing really isn’t a good fit for me and where I want to be in my life, and I think other people might feel the same way”? I mean, was this a new concept for you?

Jolene Park: You know, it was a little, because my decision to stop drinking was a very personal decision. Even as I was working in wellness, and health, and nutrition, I functioned really well. My drinking didn’t look problematic on the outside, but internally I knew that it was problematic for me. It was a very personal decision, and then the more I started speaking professionally about my personal decision, the more people came and said, “I identify with that kind of drinking. It doesn’t look end stage, or problematic on the outside.” Then it became using the tools that I had been using, and teaching, and found really beneficial for myself have also really benefited others.

Gina Thorne: That’s wonderful, and part of that is, for someone who’s a wellness coach, you obviously draw on life experience in working with your clients, and you also have partnerships with, I’m sure, lots of people who help you be successful in working with your clients. You have a great podcast that you do with Aidan? Aidan Connelley?

Jolene Park: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Aidan-

Gina Thorne: Aidan Donnelley-

Jolene Park: Aidan Donnelley Rowley.

Gina Thorne: Rowley. Yup. Both of you have done a great job in really kind of putting together this idea of looking at editing our drinking in our lives, and how do you do that, and so you’ve got some great topics that you’ve covered. Do you count or not count your days of sobriety, I guess? Or when you’re dreaming of drinking, which I was actually talking to a friend of mine about that earlier today, and she said, “Oh, yeah. I remember when I had dreams about drinking.” Very interesting topics. The impact of parenthood on drinking, another really good one, because I think a lot of people don’t think about that.
When you think about what you’ve done in your professional career to create partnerships with people like Aidan, how does that marry up to the work that you’re doing personally with your abstinence, and the communities that you’ve created, to be successful?

Jolene Park: Well, yeah. There’s many people. Aidan and I met on Instagram, and there’s a huge kind of movement about the sober-curious, looking at the dry life, rethinking drinking, and just that community in and of itself, of partnering up and collaborating, has been great. But then from the professional collaboration as well, of I’m also a trauma informed yoga instructor, and so collaborating with that professional side of things on the stress management piece, on the nervous system regulation side, from the emotions, the fight, flight, freeze. But then also referring back to clinicians and practitioners for more in-depth kind of … If there needs to be inpatient work, looking at that comprehensive approach, those collaborations are always beneficial.

Gina Thorne: Yeah, they are, and it just helps heighten your expertise and helps you have the resources, because nothing is done in a vacuum, right? We all have to work collaboratively together.
As somebody who’s worked with clients for a long time, in particular around this idea of abstinence, what do you believe is a fundamental tool that’s necessary for someone to be successful in this abstinence movement?

Jolene Park: You know, I think nervous system regulation is a biggie, and that can be on the physical side of things, with the actual what we’re putting in our body, replenishing ourselves with things like B vitamins, and minerals like magnesium. That can really help regulate the nervous system. But then also real, practical training techniques of not staying stuck in a fight, a flee, or a freeze stress response, and there’s some great practical ways, whether it’s using our breath, using different movements, different ways to kind of let the body unwind out of that, and it’s practical, but it’s on the physical level of retraining the nervous system and rebuilding new neural plasticity in the nervous system.

Gina Thorne: That’s great, which I think is very foreign to some people. I don’t think people think about it from that perspective very often, so I think that would be a really nice piece to consider, and I know you’re doing a TED Talk soon. That’s on November 11?

Jolene Park: November 2-

Gina Thorne November 2. Okay.

Jolene Park: … will be the actual TED Talk, and then it’ll be out on video about a month later, December of 2017.

Gina Thorne Oh, good.

Jolene Park: My whole talk is The Gray Area of Drinking: Nourishing Our Nervous System in a New and Revolutionary Way.

Gina Thorne [crosstalk 00:08:33].

Jolene Park: So I’ll talk all about this.

Gina Thorne: Yeah. It’s definitely revolutionary to me. It’s very unique. If someone wanted to access your services at Healthy Discoveries, how could they get in touch with you?

Jolene Park: HealthyDiscoveries.com is my website with all of my information. I have a Craving Brain coaching program, where I work with individuals on a one on one basis, and that’s all on my website, and my contact info, you can email me anytime, is there.

Gina Thorne Okay. Wonderful. Thank you so much. It was really nice to have a chance to talk with you.

Jolene Park: Thank you for the opportunity.

Listen to Jolene’s TEDx talk here:
TEDx Talk-Jolene Park

Gina Thorne: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Harmony Foundation podcast series. It’s my pleasure today to be joined with Terri Schreiber, who’s part of the End Opioid Crisis consulting group. Welcome, Terri.

Terri Schreiber: Thank you.

Gina Thorne: It’s really nice to have you here at Harmony. We’re here to learn a little bit about your consulting practice, but before we do that, I’d like to hear a little bit more about you. What got you into learning about the opioid crisis? Why are you so fascinated with this topic, as everyone should be?

Terri Schreiber: Thank you for the opportunity to answer that question. My relationship to the opioid crisis and opioids in general stems from a personal injury. I actually have two spine injuries. I’m a chronic pain sufferer for the last 24 years. The first time I injured my spine, I had a whiplash injury. At that time, opioids were not considered the fifth vital sign. I had two years of treatment, chiropractic, massage, physical therapy, and I went about my life.

The second injury had to do with my labor and delivery of my daughter. I fractured my spine and tore three discs. I didn’t seek medical attention right away, but I did lose a great deal of weight. I lost about 40 pounds within the first weeks of my delivery. When I finally sought medical care, opioids was … They were pervasive. Pain was considered a fifth vital sign. The doctors automatically said, “Here’s some medication. What would you like to do?” 10 years later, I continued taking the medication after having a series of medical interventions that were unsuccessful.
After so many people died, I decided that the medicines that I was taking were similar to ones that they were taking when they died, and I didn’t want to. I had a young daughter. So I decided to stop taking them, and I realized that what was happening to me was not so unique. If I had the capacity to improve my quality of life, maybe other people could, too. So I became very invested in the problem, and I thought I could use my research background and try to help others.

Gina Thorne: That’s fantastic. Tell us how that has moved into this consulting business that you have.

Terri Schreiber: Sure. When I was deciding to reclaim my life, I was a PhD student studying public affairs. I have a background in business administration and public administration. I wasn’t sure I’d ever even be able to write again or do research. But my acuity came back. My capacity to do research and writing and to engage quickly came back, so I reached out to an organization called The Colorado Consortium. I joined various work groups to try to figure out how I could engage with people within Colorado to help solve the problem.

I did a lot of research. I sat in a lot of work group meetings, and I concluded that maybe my research skills could be utilized, so I developed a collaborative organization. Right now it’s a medical doctor with addiction management specialty, a professor in public administration and a grant writer, and myself working together. We have our first presentation in a national audience in March of 2018 to share some of our findings on the prescription drug monitoring program and how to make it more effective and efficient.

Gina Thorne: Wow. Can you share a little bit about what that looks like right now? Are you still in the preliminary stages?

Terri Schreiber: We’re very much in the preliminary stages, because there’s so much opportunity relative to the prescription drug monitoring program, the PDMP as a policy tool. We believe that it can be a policy tool to help us understand when there’s overprescribing, when there’s co-prescribing of lethal dosages. For example, benzodiazepines and opioids together. When there’s doctor shopping. We believe if the right data is in the system, then we can begin to change behaviors on the part of the patient as well as the doctor. Hopefully moving forward that the doctor/patient relationship can change so we can find alternative treatments.

Gina Thorne: That’s a great model that many people learn and use now with behavioral health change and addiction treatment, so it certainly makes sense to take the data and utilize it as a way to change behavior, which I think a lot of us have forgotten how to do. I think we’re always … What is it? They call it aim, fire, shoot, I guess. They wait until after the fact, I guess.
This is your first visit to Harmony.

Terri Schreiber: That’s correct.

Gina Thorne: What are your thoughts?

Terri Schreiber: I love it. I’ve had a wonderful day. I got to meet a number of people. I got to have a tour of the facility. Frankly, it reminds me of an Israeli kibbutz situation, where you have a communal dining area. You have the various houses. It’s a very inviting community. I didn’t personally seek treatment when I stopped taking pain medicine, but if I had, I would certainly want to be at a place like this.

Gina Thorne: Oh, thank you for that feedback. That’s wonderful to hear. If someone wanted to access your services or get in touch with you through the End Opioid Crisis Consulting, how could they get in touch with you?

Terri Schreiber: They could get in touch with me via email or via Twitter. The email address is endopioidcrisis@gmail.com. The Twitter account is @endopioidcrisis.

Gina Thorne: Wonderful. Terri, we look forward to hearing great things with you and your group. Thank you so much for all the hard work you’re doing. We’re all out there in the field trying to battle this opioid crisis. It’s nice to know that we’ve got other soldiers out there doing it, too. So thanks for visiting with us.

Terri Schreiber: Well, thank you for inviting me. Thank you for the partnership.

Gina Thorne: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Harmony Foundation Podcast series. It’s my pleasure today to be joined with Brad Waldo who is the director of referral relations and alumni services from Muir Woods Teen Treatment. Welcome, Brad.

Brad Waldo: Thanks, Gina.

Gina Thorne: It’s good to have you here.

Brad Waldo: Good to be here.

Gina Thorne: I’m excited to hear more about your program. We don’t do a lot of podcasts around adolescent treatment, but we do know that there’s a huge demand for it. Before we get into talking about Muir Woods, let’s talk a little bit about your background and how you got into the field of addiction treatment.

Brad Waldo: Right. I actually went to treatment when I was 17-years-old. It was a month before my 18th birthday and one difference between adolescent and adult treatment is actually that in most states you can’t sign yourself out until your 18. My parents knew that if I turned 18, I probably wouldn’t agree to go to treatment, so it was a bit earlier intervention than would’ve otherwise happened and I’ve stayed sober since.

Gina Thorne: Where did you go to treatment? What state? California?

Brad Waldo: California.

Gina Thorne: So, California says you have to be 17?

Brad Waldo: 18.

Gina Thorne: 18 to sign out.

Brad Waldo: Yeah.

Gina Thorne: Other states are different.

Brad Waldo: Yeah. Colorado is 15.

Gina Thorne: Colorado is 15.

Brad Waldo: Then, Washington State is 13.

Gina Thorne: Yeah. Wow, that’s so young.

Brad Waldo: Yeah.

Gina Thorne: Your role now is just giving back.

Brad Waldo: Yeah.

Gina Thorne: You’re working in the field to just …

Brad Waldo: Absolutely.

Gina Thorne: … Give back to those adolescents. That’s great.

Brad Waldo: Yeah. I’ve been working with the kids at our center for three years. In January, it will be three years and then another program in Southern California for teens …

Gina Thorne: Wonderful.

Brad Waldo: … For two years before that.

Gina Thorne: Okay. Well, it’s not an easy group to work with.

Brad Waldo: No.

Gina Thorne: Kudos to you guys because that’s not easy. Well, it’s called Muir Woods Trusted Teen Treatment. Correct?

Brad Waldo: Muir Wood Adolescent and Family Services.

Gina Thorne: Okay.

Brad Waldo: Then, Trusted Teen Treatment is the …

Gina Thorne: Is the tagline.

Brad Waldo: Yeah.

Gina Thorne: Nice. You guys are located in Marin County, which most people wouldn’t know that, but that’s close to San Francisco area.

Brad Waldo: Yeah. Just outside of San Francisco.

Gina Thorne: You guys are a gender specific program, so you work with obviously adolescents 13 to 18?

Brad Waldo: Yeah.

Gina Thorne: Can you describe how teen rehab might be different? You might not know the specifics around this, but just curiously is there a big a difference between teen rehab and adult rehab?

Brad Waldo: Right. Yeah. The age at which someone can sign themselves out plays a factor in states like I mentioned. They have to go to … Kids have to go to school. Even the past summer, it’s August and the kid’s in treatment with us and he’s going “No, it’s summer vacation.” We’re going “Legally, you have to go to school a couple hours a day Monday through Friday.”

Gina Thorne: Wow.

Brad Waldo: That’s a difference and we have a school on site, a private school through the state of California. Another thing is we champion earlier intervention, so a lot of the people we see have a genetic predisposition for drug and alcohol abuse. There’s definitely abuse happening, but not chemical dependency yet. But, definitely people where that’s not too far in the future where a lot of boys we see, we’re boys only, might be … They’re definitely going to be in treatment by the time their first year of college rolls around, so coming to us.

Gina Thorne: Catching them early.

Brad Waldo: Yeah. [inaudible 00:03:14].

Gina Thorne: Because when we talked earlier, we talked about this idea of detox. Because you guys focus so much on that early intervention, there’s really not much detox that goes into adolescent treatment.

Brad Waldo: Not typically.

Gina Thorne:Okay.

Brad Waldo: The majority of the boys we see don’t come in actively detoxing from benzos, opiates, and really strong medically urgent type of way. We have a 24 hour LVN nurse practitioner that supervises all our boys when they come in, even if they’re just detoxing from cannabis. Mental detox, all that, they’re seeing a psychiatrist the first day they’re with us. Then, so we have and my story, it’s all going to be intertwined. When I went to treatment at 17, I was a full blown opiate addict, full blown Xanax addict. I did have a medial detox that I had to do prior to coming to treatment.

Gina Thorne: Okay. But, that’s not common typically?

Brad Waldo: Very rare.

Gina Thorne: Okay. You’re working, it’s a little different, not terribly different in some cases between adult and adolescent when you’re dealing with family. Families might be listening to this podcast today and they’re probably thinking to themselves what is it that my role needs to be in helping my teen in this case get into treatment because oftentimes they’re so enmeshed in the situation, there’s so much chaos and pain going around. What is it that you all do to help calm the parents down to help them see that this is a great place for them to come?

Brad Waldo: Great question. The work that we do is long term. We’re not a bandaid. The moment of crisis that family’s in when they’re considering treatment, we sit with them and it is a very fragile time in the child’s life, the family member’s life, and we’re family focused. We’re treating the whole family dynamic. We’re not treating just the kid. Then also, we’re treating what those fractures are within the family, within the loved one in treatment, and then treating substance abuse as the thing that’s on top of those things. It’s a difficult time. There’s no way to minimize that. If you’re seeking out teen treatment from calling me to graduating treatment and going on to continued care and becoming an alumni of the Muir Wood family, from start to finish you’re with people that understand.

Gina Thorne: That’s wonderful. You all obviously have a fairly strong family component I’m sure to really understand what is the family dynamic we’re going to play in this adolescent’s life after they finish treatment with you all.

Brad Waldo: Yeah. We do 90 minutes of family therapy a week in addition to the two individual sessions that the boy in treatment will have. We do a six hour family program every Saturday that includes a presentation by one of six presenters. It’s a six week curriculum and then multifamily process group, lunch, visitation. That’s every Saturday and then before families leave they do what’s called family intensive where they’ll go through all the work that the parents have been doing, the siblings have been doing, the loved one in treatment is doing. Before they leave, going through all that work.

Gina Thorne: That’s wonderful. It’s definitely a family disease, so it sounds like you’re capturing all the right services for them. This is your first visit to Harmony. What are your thoughts?

Brad Waldo: It’s gorgeous. It is. The staff is incredible. Estes Park. I’ve spent a lot of time in Colorado, but Estes Park is beautiful. It’s a little chilly today, which is nice. From growing up in Southern California, it’s welcomed. The program seems incredible. Everyone here from the clients on site to the staff, you can feel energy here.

Gina Thorne: Thank you. We’re excited …

Brad Waldo: You can’t reproduce that.

Gina Thorne: No, you really can’t. You’re right. We’re very excited about having a partnership with Muir Woods because even though we don’t treat adolescents, it is not uncommon for us to receive phone calls from family members who have adolescents that are struggling. I know that there’s a lot of people out there that are listening that are struggling and don’t know what to do with their adolescent son. Certainly, we would be a huge supporter of Muir Woods and want folks to keep you guys in mind. With that said, if someone is listening today and they wanted to access services at Muir Woods, how could they get in touch with you?

Brad Waldo: You can call me directly. My number is 714-318-0955. That’s my direct line. Call anytime for any reason. Then also, you could find us at www.muirwoodteen.com, M-U-I-R-W-O-O-D-T-E-E-N.com. Yeah. Anything we can do to help. The earlier the intervention is, we think the better and help is available.

Gina Thorne: Wonderful. Well, thanks again for taking the time to visit us.

Brad Waldo: Thanks for having me.

Gina Thorne: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Harmony Foundation podcast series, and I’m pleased today to be joined with Elise DuBois with RiverMend Health.
Welcome, Elise.

Elise DuBois: Thank you.

Gina Thorne: It’s really great-

Elise DuBois: It’s great to be here.

Gina Thorne:It’s so great to have you up on campus here at Harmony, and we want to hear more about RiverMend Health, but before we do, we want to learn a little bit about you. What got you into the field of addiction treatment?

Elise DuBois: I am from Detroit originally, and I was working in automotive marketing for about 13 years there and was looking for a change from the corporate world, so I decided to get my master’s in mental health, so I completed my master’s in mental health in 2010 and then realized that I may not want to be a therapist. I had some personal experience with recovery and some professional interest in the field of recovery, decided to move to Los Angeles and just became more invested in that field professionally.

Gina Thorne: I think it’s quite a big shift to go from Detroit to LA.

Elise DuBois: Yes, it is.

Gina Thorne:You like the sunshine, I guess.

Elise DuBois: I do. I love the sunshine. I hate the traffic.

Gina Thorne: Oh, yeah, there is a lot of that.

Elise DuBois: Yeah. Yeah.

Gina Thorne: I guess it’s like, what do you call it, a way versus … the pros and cons, I guess.

Elise DuBois: Yes, it’s a give and take, definitely.

Gina Thorne: There you go. Yeah.

Elise DuBois: Definitely.

Gina Thorne: You work with RiverMend Health, and what I learned about it when I was doing my research is that RiverMend has a continuum of care model with various treatment programs that addresses residential, IOP, and even eating disorders. Correct?

Elise DuBois: Correct.

Gina Thorne: Can you share a little bit about how RiverMend assesses which program is best for a client when they call into your program.

Elise DuBois: Sure. We do have eating disorders specific treatment programs, substance use disorders specific, and then each of our program also has a niche within it, so Rosewood Centers for Eating Disorders is our eating disorder treatment program. Bluff Plantation is treating substance use disorder primary in Augusta, Georgia, and Positive Sobriety Institute is a professionals program in Chicago.
Our calls are fielded by centralized intake group and, at that point, we do an over-the-phone assessment. We can also run any financial information that a potential patient may be interested in learning more about, where they stand, and then, at that point, we decide which program would be the best fit. If it’s within our family of programs, we also have a really, really large book of resources outside of our programs.
I would say that we probably refer out the majority of the calls because there’s something that is a better fit either geographically, financially or clinically, but we do a pretty thorough assessment over the phone and then, if someone is going to continue on to admit to one of our programs, we’ll then do a deeper-dive clinical assessment and really continue assessing along the way. If a different, say, an eating disorder pops up as a primary at one of our substance use disorder treatment program, we can address that and refer out if necessary and then vice versa. Those two addictions go hand in hand, so we’re always looking to make sure that the patients are in the most appropriate level of care at the most appropriate program.

Gina Thorne: Do you all take insurance?

Elise DuBois: We do take insurance. We’re in network at Rosewood, so eating disorders, and then out of network with our substance use disorder treatment programs.

Gina Thorne: Great. Perfect, so that’s always a big question that people ask, isn’t it?

Elise DuBois: Yes. Yes.

Gina Thorne: My experience working with RiverMend is that you all have a very strong medical model …

Elise DuBois: Yes.

Gina Thorne: … that can really treat some folks that are fairly highly medically acute, because we all know that this disease is not just about the physical addiction and/or the psychological addiction, but it’s also about what’s done to the body, and so can you talk with us a little bit about how you all address the acute medical needs that come up when people admit into your program, and I’m assuming that that would probably be more often at the Bluff’s in Augusta?

Elise DuBois: Yeah, so, for the substance use disorder side of things, definitely Bluff Plantation is equipped to handle a variety of medical issues, so Dr. Jacobs, our medical director there, is also the admitting physician at the hospital, the local hospital, so can really help people get into see neurologists, endocrinologists, work with patients who have diabetes or even chronic pain issues. He is board certified pain management before he was board certified addition and so has a really deep knowledge of just different medical issues that can arise, and we can get those issues addressed pretty quickly.

Our other program that probably deals with that the most is Rosewood, so, with the eating disorders, as you can imagine, there are a myriad of medical complications that come along with that. One thing that Rosewood is able to do is to detox an eating disorder patient, which is a pretty rare resource to have, so, along with that really heavily medically supervised detox with a medically compromised patient, we also look at, I mean, a vast array of medical issues that come along with the eating disorders, and we’re able to treat those safely and have the ability to work with the eating disorder alongside the other medical issues.

Gina Thorne: Usually that just increases the success rate post-treatment when you’re able to take care of those medical issues, which often can be a trigger for relapse with many folks.

Elise DuBois: Exactly, especially for the substance use disorder side and the pain issues that may come along with that, opiate addiction and/or chemical dependency on opiates, definitely, and then for the eating disorder side of it, it’s just a continuum of increased health that keeps somebody in recovery on that side of things.

Gina Thorne: That’s wonderful. This is your first visit to Harmony.

Elise DuBois: Yes.

Gina Thorne: I know that you haven’t really been able to do the full tour yet, but what are your thoughts so far?

Elise DuBois: I mean, it’s beautiful. Again, coming from Los Angeles, it’s a big change, but I really value the seclusion here, I guess, if you will, and just the containment, and I think that, for a lot of people especially in early sobriety, the quiet is really good and really beneficial, and I can see that being a really big draw for people who need to get some space. I mean, I’m a nature lover, so I love the nature aspect of everything, and I also think that that really can be a big plus for someone in early sobriety.

Gina Thorne: We’ve seen that actually be the case is that the natural surroundings do contribute to people, seeing that life in recovery can be less chaotic and crazy, so that’s helpful. If someone were listening today and they wanted to access the services at RiverMend Health, how could they get in touch with you?

Elise DuBois: I mean, I’m always happy to talk with anybody and I can provide you my phone number if needed. I do think though that a really great thing to do to get several things taken care of at one time including the assessment, verification benefits and general program information is to contact our intake department.

Our national director of admissions, Kristen Scheel, is amazing and has put together a really, really good team with a lot of resources, so I always encourage people, even if you don’t know if it’s going to be a good fit or you don’t think it will be, to just give a call anyway because our rule of thumb with our intake group is to never hang up the phone without giving resources whether they’re with us or with another program, so I would say that anyone needing to get in touch with RiverMend Health can call our intake line at 844-464-3876 or always feel free to reach out to me as well. My email address is edubois@rivermendhealth.com.

Gina Thorne: Wonderful. Thank you so much for taking the time.

Elise DuBois: Thanks, Gina. It was my pleasure.

RiverMend Health

Gina: Hi everyone, welcome to the Harmony Foundation podcast series. It’s my pleasure today to be joined by Carol O’Dowd, who is a registered psychotherapist with the Center for Connected Communities. Welcome, Carol.

Carol: Thank you.

Gina: So great to have you here at Harmony.

Carol: It’s a pleasure to be here.

Gina: I’ve been very excited about doing this podcast with you because I’ve had some time to do some research around your background, and it’s just been a delight to be able to learn. And you’ve got an amazing story anyway, which unfortunately, we don’t have a lot of time to talk about. However, I would like to give the listeners an opportunity to hear more about who you are in particular around the practice of what you do in psychotherapy, which is, in my opinion, incredibly unique.

So you have a very interesting approach to clinical care. You’re trained in mindfulness, which is not uncommon in the field of addiction treatment, but you also adopted a Japanese psychology with ordination as a Shin Buddhist priest, which is a blend of eastern and western views. So for those that are new to this whole idea of Shin Buddhism and what you’re doing with the psychology aspect of it, can you talk with us a little bit about how do you do that? I mean, what does that look like?

Carol: It’s a blend of east, which is taking very ancient wisdoms and combining it with the west, which is very practical tools that allow access to body, mind, and spirit. So how I do that in Shin Buddhism, the core practice is what’s called deep listening, but that means that we don’t listen just with our ears. We challenge you to listen with your feet. So it’s the practice of being open and listening to what is as is, not as it is. The minute you say “as it is” that’s solidifying.

So it’s being open to the fact that life is always changing. So similar to addiction, that high gives you this big high and then it goes away. Life is the same way. Okay? What you like, it’s going to change. What you don’t like is going to change. So the real question then is combining, again, [morito 00:02:20] practice, which is where do you want to place your attention? Do you want to place your attention on what you don’t have or do you want to place your attention on what you do have and let in more?

Gina: That’s beautiful, and it sounds so fluid.

Carol: It is.

Gina: I mean, that’s a big part of it, is like you said. It’s not rooting yourself in one thing, which in mindfulness, especially around meditation, it’s always about the concrete of being present in that moment. But I hear what you’re saying is that it’s not just about being concrete in that moment, but recognizing the fluidity of it.

Carol: Well the fluid … What moment lasts?

Gina: Right, right. That’s a great point. There is no such thing is there?

Carol: Right. And so my view of clinical care is more that it is a transformative journey. So to me, it’s a process of working with my client as experts. I’m not the expert. I haven’t lived their life, so I have to find out where are they, what are they doing, and what’s always changing? So I just give tools so I can reach into a eastern bag or a western bag, whatever works for the client because it’s what works for them not what works for me.

Gina: Great. So you have, I guess it’s training also, in …

Carol: Ikebana.

Gina:Ikebana, thank you, which is Japanese flower arranging.

Carol: Correct.

Gina: Which I always think of just the bonsai tree when I think of that, but I’m sure that’s not even close.

Carol: No.

Gina: And then kyudo?

Carol: It’s kyudo, which is the way of the bow.

Gina: Okay, which is an archery, correct?

Carol: Yes.

Gina: Okay. What’s the disciplines that carry into these practices? As you look at that and you’re mentoring and coaching your clients, how do you take these two very unique aspects and bring them into a client’s life where they can adopt it? It seems like there’s a tremendous amount of metaphor work that happens there.

Carol: Yes, a bit. Kyudo is a fascinating exercise because it comes out of Japan and also was practiced intently by the Samurai. What’s fascinating is that the Samurai warriors, before they went into battle carrying the bow, this is before the days of guns and such, it’s strictly arrows, the practice that they engaged in to prepare for battle, ikebana. So these great big tense guys sitting and ikebana is arranging flowers, but the practice of ikebana involves, again, listening to the flowers.

So it’s being aware of body, mind, and spirit when moving the flowers and listening to the flowers. Allow the flowers to show face. Also, what’s a little bit different from ikebana versus just standard flower arranging and lots of just sticking the flowers in the pot is, or the vase I mean, it’s the practice of being aware of space and arranging the space as well as the physical space the flower takes up.

Gina: The space between too.

Carol: Yes.

Gina: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Carol: Yes. So it’s being aware of that and listening to that. So how that translates into a client’s life is, okay, who are you sitting next to when you go to a particular environment? Do you want to be next to that or are you getting stuck? Are you next to a cactus or are you being a cactus? Right?

Gina: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Carol: Where are you in space and time? So the practice of ikebana helps with the awareness of space and time. Kyudo, it’s a very intense practice. It involves standing meditation. It also involves being truly aware of body, mind, and spirit, because with kyudo, you have to be aware of totally where you are and how are you connecting with the bow? Different from western archery, in kyudo, you are throwing the arrows because of the way the bow works. It spins around and literally throws the arrow. And when you’re … As I was trained by my sensei, when you look at the target, the target is you.

Gina: Hm.

Carol: So it’s this connection with everything, the bow, the string, the arrow, the target, and realizing you too are part of this great oneness. Be aware of where you are. That is also a practice you can use in daily life because what it is is, again, where do you want to place your attention?

Gina: Which is so much about recovery. Recovery is all about, where do you see your mind being? Where do you see … Because so much of the time they’re in the past and they’re in the future, but they’re not looking at where they want their mind to be in the moment and in the present, and that sounds like a wonderful exercise and helping them with that.

Carol: And from these practices is, okay, the past is fine, but how are you bringing it forward? What are you throwing out there? What, from your past, do you want to bring forward? What future do you wish to create? Where do you want to be? Because the present, you can’t hold onto it. It’s always moving. So where are you going? Where have you been?

Gina: So different. Such a different way to look at it.

Carol: Yeah.

Gina: That’s fantastic.

Carol: Thank you.

Gina: So switching gears a little bit, you’re also the executive director for the Colorado Association of Psychotherapists.

Carol: Yes.

Gina: What is it? Tell us a little bit about this group.

Carol: It’s an exciting group because it’s a place that really promotes diverse practices and diverse therapies for all of Colorado. That’s our venue. What’s wonderful about Colorado is we have numerous indigenous peoples living here as well as those coming from other countries, certainly quite a population from Ethiopia, even Indonesia.

So back to each person, what works for them may not be something that came out of a western college or a single specific academic training. It might be shamanistic practice. Who are we to judge? If that works and it heals, let’s promote it and make it available. Now, we don’t do it in the sense of saying, “Well, whatever you feel like is what you can do.”

We truly encourage anyone who’s been trained because if you, having spent time personally in Indonesia with some of the healers there, the enormous amount of training I’m in awe of. It’s a different form of education, but it’s education training and high standards. Again, focusing on the healing aspects of the client. If you can’t heal the client, you aren’t being allowed to practice. Okay?

Gina: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Carol: So what we’re doing as an association is promoting legislation that will continue to keep a variety of diverse practices available to all peoples living in Colorado as well as offering our members and even the public education, networking opportunities, and introducing the background behind these many diverse therapies because even some of the Japanese ones that I use, finally science, which is the great god in the west, is verifying what has been used for hundreds of years, and in some cases, thousands of years.

Gina: Right. So it’s a great group of folks where if you wanted to find a therapist that would meet the needs of what you’re looking for, you could easily find someone within that group.

Carol: Yup. You could go to www.coloradopsychotherapists.com.

Gina: Okay.

Carol: And our advisory board, we’ve got the directors of different schools here in Colorado, the Boulder Psychotherapy Institute, Colorado School for Family Therapy, and an academy that is trained, they’re one of the trainers for hypnotherapists. So again, we’ve got folks who are leaders in the development, even, of some new technology. So I guess what I would underscore is not only can you find therapists, you can also look at what’s being tested in the field. So we support and encourage innovation and exploration in ways that serve the needs of residents of Colorado.

Gina: That’s fantastic. It’s great to have that resource here.

Carol: Thank you.

Gina: Thanks for your leadership with that.

Carol: Thank you.

Gina: So if someone wanted to access services for the Center for Connected Communities, how could they get in touch with you?

Carol: They can call me at 720-244-2299 or they can go to www.centerforconnectedcommunities.org.

Gina: Well, it’s been a pleasure talking with you, Carol. I feel like we could spend an hour going through some of the amazing things that you’re doing. But if folks are interested in learning more about you, please have them visit the website. And we thank you for visiting Harmony today.

Carol: Oh, and thank you. It’s an honor to be at Harmony. It’s amazing what you folks are doing.

Gina: Thank you.